knive crime and diving

[gerald1961]

would they have to register and pay the entance fee for capper before they came in

[Silty Bottom]

(29-11-2008 08:20 PM)gerald1961 Wrote:  would they have to register and pay the entance fee for capper before they came in

[salty_scuba_peanut]

If you're on your way to or from a dive site or already there it's classed as legal because it's for a specific purpose. The knife has to get there somehow I'm not sure on the law regarding walking around with it still on ur leg if you're within the dive site's boundaries but you're definately supposed to remove them if you go somewhere like Vivian Quarry and wander around Llanberis

(29-11-2008 01:44 PM)Kev T Wrote:  Just a thought, but was reading an article in my local rag about a builder stopped by traffic police, who subsequently searched his van and found a knife in the back, presumably with his tools. The knife was described as being capable of inflicting "horrific wounds " which to be fair describes most diving knives, i am concerned exactly where we divers stand if stopped in a similar situation, could we be prosecuted for posession of an offensive weaponi wonder ?

[Jenkins]

I quote from http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/CrimeJustice.../DG_078569

Quote:What is and isn't legal
the maximum penalty for carrying a knife is four years in prison and a fine of £5000 it is illegal for any shop to sell a knife of any kind (including cutlery and kitchen knives) to anyone under the age of 18
it is generally an offence to carry a knife in public without good reason or lawful authority (for example, a good reason is a chef on the way to work carrying their own knives)
the maximum penalty for an adult carrying a knife is four years in prison and a fine of £5000
knives where the blade folds into the handle, like a Swiss Army Knife, aren't illegal as long as the blade is shorter than three inches (7.62 cms)

Offensive weapons
If a knife is used in a threatening way (even a legal knife, such as a Swiss Army knife), it is regarded as an 'offensive weapon' by the law. This is also the case with things like screwdrivers - once used in a threatening manner, they are treated as offensive weapons. It is an offence to carry an offensive weapon in a public place, if you don't have a reasonable excuse. This means that carrying something that could be viewed as an offensive weapon, and then using it in a threatening way, could mean that you are prosecuted. The penalty is up to four years' imprisonment and/or a fine.

[aquafan]

You would like to think that any reasonable officer would use common sense if you were walking around a dive site with a knife attached to your leg!

[MK_Stu]

There are two offences you could be charged with:

Possession of an offensive weapon - Section 1 Prevention of Crime Act 1953; and/or

Possession of a bladed instrument - Section 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988.

They both have "reasonable excuse" defences in the 1953 Act "without law authority of reasonable excuse" and the CJS the slightly more convoluted

"It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place."

This should cover any diver having a knife in a public place on his/her way to or from a dive so far as the CJA goes.

For the offensive weapon offence a weapon is something (paraphrasing) “made, adapted or intended for causing injury to the person”. A made offensive weapon is a flick knife, stiletto knife etc and a divers knife does not fall into that group. Unless the diver intends to use it to cause personal injury (and tells somebody!) there is no real argument that it is intended to cause injury and so it is not an offensive weapon.

Obviously, if it is in the boot of your car without any other diving kit on a Saturday night at 11pm you might have a bit of talking to do (Oh! I forgot I’d left it there is not a reasonable excuse R v. Bayliss [2003] – but in normal circumstances you are not committing an offence.

I suspect the knife in the back of the builder’s van wasn’t something normally used for building or he said something about why he had it. There were lots of cases where people when questioned by the Police said words to the effect: “yes well I would use it to defend myself if I had to” that (very arguably) turns it into an offensive weapon.

[Bobco]

I think we have a brief in our midst

[Dougalsdad01]

Oh the nanny state, take me to America please and let me loose with some decent weaponry (on the range of course). We are being governed to death with laws against everything that's fun.

[Bobco]

Fun...like stabbing people, sorry m8 buts its a nasty place out there, but who am I to judge, I would happily hang them all.

[Dougalsdad01]

There's nothing wrong with guns and knives, it's the people using them that have a screw loose. Banning them just makes them more desirable, we currently have the highest rate of gun and knife crime this country has known but both are banned. The city in America with the lowest overall crime rate in America has a law demanding that every household has a gun.