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BSAC vs PADI first stage set up

Discussion in 'New to Scuba Diving' started by minus273degrees, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. minus273degrees

    minus273degrees Active Member

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    So I ask whats the differences between the two and the pro's and con's of each.

    Also how easy is it to change yourself?
     
  2. Zubar

    Zubar Active Member
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    As in which hoses to put where?

    Very easy to change.
    Primary reg and octo on the right. Gauge, bcd and suit on the left. Is pretty standard.
    If you can change the hose entry side on the second stage then there is some merit to having the octo on the left.
     
  3. minus273degrees

    minus273degrees Active Member

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    Yep I'm used to PADI but have a set that are BSAC set up I think, more than definitely going to change round just wanted to consider other options first.

    On a Apeks DS4, Allen Key & spanner job?
     
  4. Zubar

    Zubar Active Member
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    Yep. I have ds4s.
    Remember the O rings are captive so you don't need to do things up too tight.
     
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  5. hawk

    hawk Doing It Rong
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    I wasn't aware there was a diference between PADI and BSAC for singles tin set up. if there is I'd be interested in knowing ....
     
  6. NickPicks

    NickPicks Active Member

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    All my club regs have the primary on the right (so it feeds into the diver's mouth) and the octo on the left, so that when deployed, it's a smooth curve over the donor's left shoulder, and into the right of the receiver's mouth.
    BC hose is on the left, and drysuit on the right.

    Having tried an OOG drill (me as receiver) with someone using 'both right', I found that the reg was constantly trying to pull out of my mouth, and I had my face right up close to theirs.

    The solution would be to use a longer octo hose, so it can do the double curve easier.
    (uh oh, I almost mentioned 'long hose' there)

    I believe BSAC don't have a 'standard' setup, leaving it up to divers to find what works best for them. I know I wouldn't recommend a standard length octopus on the left though - with a longer hose would be OK (probably 1.5m would work for face to face donation)

    Changing hoses is easy - you only need a spanner (allen key if you're putting in blanking plugs). But remember Woz's advice about the 4 types of tightness:
    1- Finger tight (done up with the fingers)
    2- Nipped up (finger tight plus a little nip with the spanner)
    3- Spanner tight (done up with hand force on a spanner)
    4- Crammed up (as tight as you can possibly get with spanners)

    For a reg, you want to be 'nipped up', levels 3 or 4 will mean you'll need a new regulator - brass is fairly soft.
     
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  7. timmyg

    timmyg Super Moderator
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    There is no standard setup, for either agency. It's all preference.

    Personally (on a traditional setup), by having the AS on your left it is automatically set up for the OOG diver. By having it on your right it is setup for you, therefore the hose needs to be kinked for the OOG diver to breath from it.

    *unless you have an omni-directional reg or one that can be fed from left or right.
     
  8. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    OK, what about other aspects of using the alternate: your primary mouthpiece has broken so need to swap over; you want to swap from primary to alternate in-water to verify it's working; you want to use the alternate for blob-inflation...

    I guess I'm now too indoctrinated into the DIR way to see that any other ways are valid. Arrgghhh... use a longhose and necklaced alternate for everything. Now I've said it. Damn octopus is dangerous, dragging in the dirt, never used, kinked hose, shoved in a pocket...
     
  9. hawk

    hawk Doing It Rong
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    Pretty sure using the alternate for blob-inflation and DIR are not compatable ;)
     
  10. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Well... I suppose it'll be swap to your alternate to breathe, use the long-hose at your leisure to blow up the blob's chuff, then swap back once the blob's gone.

    Personally I hate that and would always use my drysuit inflation hose. What if there's not one available (e.g. wetsuit in warm water)... should one use the BCD inflation hose?
     
  11. hawk

    hawk Doing It Rong
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    What's wrong with using exhaled gas to inflate the blob - pretty sure that's the DIR way.

    Personally, I wouldn't want to start one of my regs free flowing for any reason
     
  12. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Octo right with PADI is historical as ports expanded to suit what was added.

    1. We are mostly right handed, so that's where the main LP port goes.
    2. If reg is now right, HP goes left.
    3. ABLJ's now get a feed and with a reg right, the corrogated needs to go somewhere and
    it's more uncluttered left + the gauge is lower down anyway, so LP left.
    4. Buddy breathing not so good, ok lets have an Octo, well i've got two hoses coming left
    already and it's primarily for me or is it buddy? Can't decide :p , better go right.

    And that's where it stopped and for a long time being that PADI is the worlds no1 and
    manufactuers followed there lead, lots of old regs had 3 xLP ports and 1 HP. If you
    needed a drysuit you got a port adapter to turn one into two.

    Then we had 4 :)

    Ok so BSAC and other agencies not constrained by any warm-water dictates that don't
    really consider drysuit and might mess up a worldwide standard, looked at 4 LP ports
    and 1 or even 2 HP ports and said why is the Octo on the right?

    When the poo hits an OOG diver using octo right will have to bend the hose back (unless
    it's got a swivel or is a side port), shortening the hose and potentialy getting in the way of
    the purge. If they need to swim to safety side-by-side, the hose is again shortened and
    bent to stay upright.

    If on the other hand ir's on the left, then it presents the right way up for the buddy and
    the hose is at full length. If they need to swim to safety, then the hose extends directly to
    the left from the first stage again at maximum extension.

    It's not exactly prescribed that BSAC do it this way, but it's so common that it might as
    well be labled the BSAC way.

    But ............................

    There is one failing in having it on the left with BSAC.

    PADI teach use own octo in case of a problem, usually a wet breathe or a mouthpiece
    failing etc. so if it's for you or buddu you have a protocol.

    BSAC on the other hand teach use octo for buddy or use buddy, they don't include any
    reccomendation or drill to simply use the octo for own use which is daft when there is
    a very simple solution.

    If you have Octo left and you get a wet breathe etc, then go to buddy so he can watch you,
    unclip octo, dip head and put around the back of the head so it now feeds right. The extra
    length will mean that it's in the same place and is the right way up. Shoudnt be used to
    extend the dive, but much nicer and safer way of going back if neccessary.

    So with that caveat, octo left = always :)
     
  13. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    If one puff of breath is enough. When you've got an English Channel sized blob (that takes 6 *full* lungfuls to inflate - so 12 half lungfuls, i.e. it'll only fully inflate at 120 metres!), you've got to use the inflator hose.
     
  14. hawk

    hawk Doing It Rong
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    Really?

    I'd be interested in other's opinions on this
     
  15. NickPicks

    NickPicks Active Member

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    I use a standard buddy dsmb. According to their website, it's 1.4m long and 0.2m wide (I think this is flat, so that gives a diameter of 13cm when inflated). Multiplying this out to give volume makes about 18 litres.
    So from 10m, that's 9 litres, or from 20m, 6 litres of breath, so 2 decent breaths.

    If Wibs uses a bigger blob than mine, then he's going to need a new set of lungs!
     
  16. NickPicks

    NickPicks Active Member

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    and Tel's post reminds me I could do with getting myself a longer octo hose. Any advice on best length? Should I go for a 2m and bungee the excess?
     
  17. hawk

    hawk Doing It Rong
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  18. hawk

    hawk Doing It Rong
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    If you want a long hose, put it on your primary and learn to hog loop and primary donate.
     
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  19. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Nah i'd go for 1.2m max.

    Way I look at it is that Octo and Long-hose PD is two different systems, octo being
    more the domain from starting, upto intermediate. In a fubar it's about contact and
    going home, so having too long a hose especially if diving with someone who
    expects to be up-close, then the longer hose + any issues with grab, deploying/stowing
    might make the situation worse.

    Compare that to long-hose/tech where the dives will be longer, penetration more
    likely and the need to donate gas to do extended deco etc. means some serious
    advantages to having a longer hose and PD etc.

    Standrd hoses tend to be about 900mm which is ok if you are average to small, but for
    a 6'6" wokky impersonator not so good :) I'd go for 1.2m, better than the standard, but
    not so long you've got to start messing about with too much bungee.
     
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  20. NickPicks

    NickPicks Active Member

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    Have you been stalking me? Not quite 6'6", but 6'2".
     

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