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Buddy commando bcd

Discussion in 'Dive Equipment' started by Alan Davies, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    It's important to review stuff like this for the newbies to diving (i.e. me - this year's only my sixth season).

    It is nice to see how kit has evolved and is now much more standardised, and how the tech is more readily available.

    I guess in the context of the 60's, 70's, 80's & 90's, the Auto-Air may have had a place. Definitely not with contemporary kit configurations and protocols though.
     
  2. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    (For clarity - "Stab" was a term to describe a BCD - stability jacket?)
     
  3. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Way I look at it, if it's OC then it's a no and a CF waiting to happen.

    If on a RB though fine, because the unit by itself will be enough to have a newbie scratching there head
    anyway, so a auto-air isnt going to make a lot of difference.
     
  4. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Yeah I caused a security alert at Bristol Airport once on that one :)
     
  5. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Think I can see where you're going with this.

    Issue is that an Auto-Air isn't really appropriate if you were rebreathing away and another diver comes at you with out-of-air. With a stage, no problems - give the stage reg to them. An Auto-Air isn't for sharing.

    If you're diving very shallow and going to use the Auto-Air as a bailout (because you don't have a BOV - Bail Out Valve), an Octopus would Shirley be the better tool?
     
  6. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    Stab = stabiliser jacket or BC = buoyancy compensator.

    If I'm with an OC buddy I always take a bailout cylinder with conventional OC reg and a decent hose length, regardless of depth.

    If I'm with a CCR buddy then the Auto air can be for me as bail out alone and that's usually with a regular buddy who runs with his own BOV. It's pre agreed what our bail out plan is.

    Octopus better? I can see your logic but this is mine. The Auto air is tested as per a normal reg. it will deliver me enough gas to breath from my on board 3ltr dil, which is an appropriate gas for the depth (usually air). This will only ever be shallow, 15-20 mtr diving max no stop and no chance of over head. An octopus will have to be connected to something, not an off board as that's what I'm avoiding carrying. So it's got to go to my Dil first stage. Then I've got to stow the hose and regulator somewhere safe and easily accessible. Time I do all that I might as well just pick up a bailout cylinder, so the auto air works for me.

    This isn't everyone's choice but suits me. As a point of interest I did MOD1 in 2014 with a TDI instructor. The initial part of the course , 30mtr no stop diving air dil, was undertaken without separate bailout but utilising the auto air. We undertook a SAC assessment to see that we could ascend safely on the gas available. So whilst I appreciate this approach may sound weird it was and possible still is a course standard. This course is specific to the AP unit.
     
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  7. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    'scuse my ignorance; is there a difference?

    Interesting that the Auto-Air's having a renascence for RBs. I guess it's prevalent in the AP boxes as they developed the Auto-Air in the first place.
     
  8. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    No can still donate the Auto-Air, yes it will be a bit tight, but if you have an alternate, even one that is
    primarily for yourself then you should learn how to use it in at least the two most common scenarios.

    The biggest problem with newbies isnt the lack of Octopus, if its that shallow just go up. The problem
    is the newbie doesnt know what to do if faced with a rescue and an Inflator that doesnt work and
    assumes that it's to do with a load of other hoses and things that they've never seen before. Task
    overload and a CF is almost guaranteed. This is why it's not a great idea to take newbies out mixing
    buddies RB and OC. It's in the RBs own interest to buddy up with someone that has at least some
    chance of doing a rescue.
     
  9. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Would be tight too.

    You'd be vertical and ascending whilst gas sharing using the Auto-Air, buddy tight to you. Going to be a sod to dump air from the BCD when your buddy's breathing off of it!
     
  10. Vanny

    Vanny Well-Known Member

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    'scuse my ignorance; is there a difference?

    No just clarifying terminology.

    Tel, not sure if I'm not explaining my self well enough but for clarity I don't dive with new divers on CCR. I dive as per BSAC guidelines , sports diver and above. Any OC buddy diving with me on CCR will generally be experienced, any new sports divers it'll be simple dives. As an aside I have a little talk I give any potential OC buddies in our club. That's delivered on club night not on the rib! We cover description of workings , operation for the buddy , and rescue considerations.
     
  11. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    Yes, the Stab or Stabilser Jacket was designed by Scubapro and had a full wrap-around bladder
    that included the shoulder straps and allowed air to move freely all over..

    [​IMG]

    The BC on the other hand has a bladder that is either a horsehoe with rear and side panels, or a
    donut type with side panels that allows a greater degree of movement, but not as much as a stab.

    The downside is that being a fixed size they werent as adaptable to different suits etc.
     
  12. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    No its ok wasnt pointed at you, just a simple mantra to keep the two groups apart which is what you do anyway :)
     
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  13. Tel

    Tel Super Moderator
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    None of which matters as the guy owning the Auto-air shoud be ok with doing precisly that.

    Or on another tack, can you invisage a scanario where you woud have to do either a CBL or AS
    vertically face to face? Despite the "do everything horizontal" it's a possabilty even if it's a remote one.

    Don't have to go mad and spend ages in a quarry, but it wouldnt be a bad idea to have do a vertcal lift
    now and again just to ensure that it can be done ok.
     
  14. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    Lets hope that's the case!

    And practice days are excellent ways to spend winter days.
     
  15. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Super Moderator
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    :bang head: There are much worse situations to be in, In any case, why should it become uncontrolled?

    Outside GUE diving there is no such thing as standard equipment. Any poorly understood piece of equipment provides scope for misuse.

    I have an Auto Air on my rebreather and I do not intend to remove it. It was designed to have one and it provides an alternative access to my diluent. Before I fitted a BOV it was the only diluent access I had. I know one person who, after mistaking O2 MAV for suit inflate, breathed from his Auto Air whist flushing down the loop ppo2 (he was at 90m). He didn't view it pointless. If I didn't have one fitted then I'd probably not fit one.

    There are too many folk making changes to equipment after reading poor advice on the Internet. If something has been fitted then the implications of removing it, and potentially needing to make other modifications, need to be fully understood. I know of another case where someone removed the Auto Air and incorrectly completed the modification and the end came off his hose at an unfortunate moment.
     
  16. Tribal Chestnut

    Tribal Chestnut Well-Known Member
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    That doesn't sound like something you'd do!
     
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  17. jb2cool

    jb2cool Moderator
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    No, no, not at all
     
  18. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    The OP's a novice and the point is about use on a BCD. Use on a rebreather is rather esoteric and not at all general purpose.

    There is a lot of standardisation on kit, for example the use of an octopus, SPG, BCD. The use of an Auto-Air is nowadays rare and could lead to problems in untrained or inexperienced hands.
     
  19. Dave Whitlow

    Dave Whitlow Super Moderator
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    Esoteric? Which came first; rebreather or buddy commando? The clue is in the acronym SCUBA!

    When does does novice end? Do we all not have things to learn?

    Buddy Commando is a great and indestructible BCD and I still own one.

    The basics are consistent due to physics but beyond that anything goes. Club diving can be like a history lesson with everything from rebreather to ye olde Buddy with Auto Air and more..

    BCD or wing? Octopus left or right? Spg on triple console or separate spg and compass ? Pony or no pony? Side slung or back mounted pony? Pony or stage? Twinset? Integrated air computer? (bad idea) . Weight belt or bcd with integrated weight abomination? Drysuit or wetsuit (time to get a drysuit)

    The list is endless so implications of consistency just mislead and cause surprises. Don't simply life just tell it as it is rather dumbing it down assuming people want that. People should be encouraged to think!
     
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  20. Wibble

    Wibble Fish don't talk
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    And then there's the i3.
     

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